On Toll Tags
Dec. 5th, 2007 11:55 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
livingdebOn the way to the train trip, we took 183 much further north than we normally do and thus had the opportunity to use the toll road, called 183A. What I observed made me decide that I need to think about whether I want to get a toll tag.
First, I should mention that I am opposed to tolls and toll roads because
* I am cheap, ahem, frugal
* I think roads should be paid for with gas taxes—the amount of gas bought seems to correlate well with the amount of wear and tear on roads; if you need more roads, raise the taxes
* toll roads are creepy (you have to slow down, you have to worry about tolls or toll tags, etc.)
* all roads should be good, not just toll roads
* it’s another avenue for theft (another bucket that can develop leaks)
I am aware of some of the advantages of toll roads:
* people who want a treat and are willing and able to pay can get better roads
* desperate people (such as truck drivers) can pay more to get better roads
* we can get truck drivers to give us money even if they don’t stop for gas in our town
* pay per use is fair—all roads should be toll roads and there should be no gas taxes for roads
* those damned hippies in their hybrid SUVs will have to pay just as much as the rest of us, unlike when we collect their money in gas taxes
* with toll tags, people aren’t paying attention to how much they are spending, and they can spend money without having exact change or any cash at all.
* the toll road people get to hold a lot of money that people haven’t spent yet, and they get to charge big fines when people screw up.
None of these entice me except the hippie one, because I like things to be fair.
In spite of my not liking them, toll roads get built. (Currently the charge is twelve cents per mile, according to one article I found.) So I have to decide whether I want to use them or not. My answer is that I don’t want to use them.
Okay, but how easy is that going to be? So far it appears that there are regular roads to every place that toll roads go and that there are signs warning you when you are approaching the last toll-free exit and when an entrance ramp leads to a toll road. So, I never have to use them, and I never have, except in New Hampshire where I didn’t know how to research an alternative and where I was afraid of getting lost and where they started off with such tiny amounts and only gradually blew them into big, annoying amounts.
Okay, but what if at some point I decide I’m in a hurry and want to use a toll road? Or somehow I end up on one accidentally? I am not perfect, and I do make mistakes. What then?
Here’s the scary part—some parts of toll roads you cannot go through without a toll tag. They have no place to pay cash. There are warnings for these ahead of time.
And the other scary part is some parts of toll roads don’t have any cashiers. So if you have exact change, you can throw it in the basket. And if you have a little too much change, you can throw that in the basket and accept the rest as a loss. But what if you don’t have enough change? I don’t think you can throw dollar bills in. And there is no warning at all about no-cashier toll stops. And there is not even a warning about how much the toll is going to be.
So I’m trying to decide whether to get a toll tag. Pros:
* If I ever am on a toll road, things are very easy for me.
* There is a 10% discount over the cash price.
* These tags work in other Texas cities as well.
* If I lend my car to someone who uses toll roads, they can still do what they normally do by habit without getting me in trouble.
Cons:
* It costs $9.65 just to get a toll tag. I would have to pay 193 fifty-cent tolls to earn that back with the 10% discount. However, “During a limited promotional time period, the $9.65 fee for TxTag stickers is waived.” So if I’m going to get one, I should get one soon. Or maybe the website is out of date and it’s already too late.
* You have to load it with money first, and the minimum is $20. I would have to go through a fifty-cent toll over 44 times to use up that money, which I expect never to do in my entire life. I suppose I could think of this $20 as toll-road insurance.
* They want you to keep a $10 minimum in there. I don’t exactly get what happens if you go under $10. There’s no penalty unless you go below zero that I can find. I suspect this comes into play for people who have an automatic deposits made because those can be ratcheted up to cover normal monthly costs, and so they’re probably designed so the balance doesn’t go below $0 in a normal month.
* If the car is sold or stolen, I have to remember to contact these guys to tell them not to charge me for future tolls.
* Having a toll tag makes the car more valuable to thieves.
* If I lend the car to someone, I might have to ask them afterwards to pay me back for tolls. Or be generous and not ask them. Is that part of the expectation? That if you borrow a car with a toll tag, you are also getting free tolls? So you may as well take toll roads wherever possible? I don’t understand the culture on this, because toll roads are pretty new to me.
* There is no way to dispute erroneous toll charges. If the system always works perfectly, and no one ever hacks into it (in a way that affects me), that’s no problem. But otherwise you can only protest by proving that your car was sold or stolen by the time the toll was charged.
* I’m not sure I want the toll road guys having that kind of access to my credit card information. It opens another avenue for theft.
If I do decide to get one, I think I’ll go the unregistered route which makes things a little safer but also a little less convenient. I’d have to pick up the tags in person (at 12719 Burnet Road), but I think you can still check the status of your tag online.
Any thoughts?
First, I should mention that I am opposed to tolls and toll roads because
* I am cheap, ahem, frugal
* I think roads should be paid for with gas taxes—the amount of gas bought seems to correlate well with the amount of wear and tear on roads; if you need more roads, raise the taxes
* toll roads are creepy (you have to slow down, you have to worry about tolls or toll tags, etc.)
* all roads should be good, not just toll roads
* it’s another avenue for theft (another bucket that can develop leaks)
I am aware of some of the advantages of toll roads:
* people who want a treat and are willing and able to pay can get better roads
* desperate people (such as truck drivers) can pay more to get better roads
* we can get truck drivers to give us money even if they don’t stop for gas in our town
* pay per use is fair—all roads should be toll roads and there should be no gas taxes for roads
* those damned hippies in their hybrid SUVs will have to pay just as much as the rest of us, unlike when we collect their money in gas taxes
* with toll tags, people aren’t paying attention to how much they are spending, and they can spend money without having exact change or any cash at all.
* the toll road people get to hold a lot of money that people haven’t spent yet, and they get to charge big fines when people screw up.
None of these entice me except the hippie one, because I like things to be fair.
In spite of my not liking them, toll roads get built. (Currently the charge is twelve cents per mile, according to one article I found.) So I have to decide whether I want to use them or not. My answer is that I don’t want to use them.
Okay, but how easy is that going to be? So far it appears that there are regular roads to every place that toll roads go and that there are signs warning you when you are approaching the last toll-free exit and when an entrance ramp leads to a toll road. So, I never have to use them, and I never have, except in New Hampshire where I didn’t know how to research an alternative and where I was afraid of getting lost and where they started off with such tiny amounts and only gradually blew them into big, annoying amounts.
Okay, but what if at some point I decide I’m in a hurry and want to use a toll road? Or somehow I end up on one accidentally? I am not perfect, and I do make mistakes. What then?
Here’s the scary part—some parts of toll roads you cannot go through without a toll tag. They have no place to pay cash. There are warnings for these ahead of time.
And the other scary part is some parts of toll roads don’t have any cashiers. So if you have exact change, you can throw it in the basket. And if you have a little too much change, you can throw that in the basket and accept the rest as a loss. But what if you don’t have enough change? I don’t think you can throw dollar bills in. And there is no warning at all about no-cashier toll stops. And there is not even a warning about how much the toll is going to be.
So I’m trying to decide whether to get a toll tag. Pros:
* If I ever am on a toll road, things are very easy for me.
* There is a 10% discount over the cash price.
* These tags work in other Texas cities as well.
* If I lend my car to someone who uses toll roads, they can still do what they normally do by habit without getting me in trouble.
Cons:
* It costs $9.65 just to get a toll tag. I would have to pay 193 fifty-cent tolls to earn that back with the 10% discount. However, “During a limited promotional time period, the $9.65 fee for TxTag stickers is waived.” So if I’m going to get one, I should get one soon. Or maybe the website is out of date and it’s already too late.
* You have to load it with money first, and the minimum is $20. I would have to go through a fifty-cent toll over 44 times to use up that money, which I expect never to do in my entire life. I suppose I could think of this $20 as toll-road insurance.
* They want you to keep a $10 minimum in there. I don’t exactly get what happens if you go under $10. There’s no penalty unless you go below zero that I can find. I suspect this comes into play for people who have an automatic deposits made because those can be ratcheted up to cover normal monthly costs, and so they’re probably designed so the balance doesn’t go below $0 in a normal month.
* If the car is sold or stolen, I have to remember to contact these guys to tell them not to charge me for future tolls.
* Having a toll tag makes the car more valuable to thieves.
* If I lend the car to someone, I might have to ask them afterwards to pay me back for tolls. Or be generous and not ask them. Is that part of the expectation? That if you borrow a car with a toll tag, you are also getting free tolls? So you may as well take toll roads wherever possible? I don’t understand the culture on this, because toll roads are pretty new to me.
* There is no way to dispute erroneous toll charges. If the system always works perfectly, and no one ever hacks into it (in a way that affects me), that’s no problem. But otherwise you can only protest by proving that your car was sold or stolen by the time the toll was charged.
* I’m not sure I want the toll road guys having that kind of access to my credit card information. It opens another avenue for theft.
If I do decide to get one, I think I’ll go the unregistered route which makes things a little safer but also a little less convenient. I’d have to pick up the tags in person (at 12719 Burnet Road), but I think you can still check the status of your tag online.
Any thoughts?
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no subject
on 2007-12-05 06:24 pm (UTC)POSITIVES: I find mine to be handy. I don't often take the toll highways around here, but when I do I hate to have to get in the long "cash-only" line and fumble around with money, etc. Since they're removeable, they can come with you if you go on a road trip in someone else's car, or they can come out of your car if you loan it out. Also, most of the states around here share the same system, so it's useful in other places rather than just nearby.
NEGATIVES: Ours, because they're actual electronic devices, have to be replaced every couple of years. I believe it's because the battery drains over time and they're not user-replaceable. Bastards. They also come in lots of weird industrial colors, which alas you don't get to pick. Mine is off-white. I wanted the safety orange one, but no luck.
The last consideration is privacy. How many cop shows have had the bad guy get caught because his EZ-Pass showed that indeed, he DID take the Holland Tunnel at 3:42am, putting him EXACTLY in the right place at the right time to kill the judge. Case closed!
no subject
on 2007-12-05 08:54 pm (UTC)I don't have a comment about toll tags, really. It doesn't seem like you drive often or far enough, or on toll roads enough, to really need to go through the hassle of having one, but it's not much of a hassle/cost either. But I probably wouldn't bother if I were you.
But I think, given your political views, you probably shouldn't support the idea of funding roads solely via a gasoline tax. Since most of the things people buy are moved by trucks, a gasoline tax will raise the price of a lot of ordinary consumer items, and that makes it pretty much a regressive tax. (The burden will fall more heavily upon poor people because they spend a greater portion of their income. Richer people save more money.)
On another point, to have nice roads for everyone means building a ton more roads. It might make more sense to have a small number of these nicer roads and then make sure that only people who really want nice roads (or who are in a hurry on a particular day) use them. Hence, toll roads.
That said, I find them annoying also. Except for how I really like them because they are nice.
no subject
on 2007-12-08 02:48 am (UTC)If you think you might use one of the 'basket' toll roads at some indeterminate time, keep a roll of quarters in your ashtray (or glovebox or under the seat or similar hidden nook or cranny). Also useful for random parking emergencies.
If you don't think you will use the 'toll tag' roads, don't bother with the toll tag. 99% of the time you can get where you need to go without actually using the toll road, albeit at a slower pace. (They were originally considering making basically every road to the airport toll-only, but they thought better of it after the uprising that followed this decision.) My impression is that you guys use R's truck most of the time when going long distances, so if you feel a need for a toll tag, put it there, not on your car. Really, if you don't need it, all you are doing by getting one is giving a long-term zero interest loan, (and possibly gift if you don't use the money before you change cars/move/it expires/the apocalypse) to the company running the toll roads. I'm sure they would appreciate it, but I'm also sure you have better ways to invest your money.
The big advantage of tolls is it allows charging the actual 'cost' of the road. A gasoline tax treats a 100 mile road through West Texas the same as 100 trips on a 1 mile road through Round Rock, when the 1 mile road in Round Rock costs more because it is taking up more valuable land. The obvious example of this is big bridges, which we in Austin don't need but which are common in other places. In San Francisco, there are several tolled bridges where the amount of the toll varies over the day, to encourage shifting of usage to 'off-peak' times, or where high-occupancy vehicles get a waver on tolls, to encourage carpooling. (I think the Golden Gate is one.)
Oklahoma is crawling with toll roads, but theirs are rural long-distance things, not alternate routes for commuters. It really is a way of having decent highways without having any actual taxes - Oklahoma has lower state taxes than even we do, when you add them all up, and ours are extremely low. (The zero income tax more than offsets our relatively high property and sales taxes.) The alternate route for commuters approach is, to me, a way of instituting a higher-priced 'high-speed' road for those willing to pay. Whether that is good or bad is up to you. (I don't mind it, but can see why others would.)
I suspect they have some kind of anti-theft protection on the things. If you call it in stolen, they should be able to watch for it to show up on one of the toll-booths. Sometimes a cop will be sitting on the booth looking for people who don't have toll tags who go through the tag lanes to try to duck the toll, so if they also have access to the 'stolen tag' flag, instant bust. (They do use the things in similar ways - some places, if you 'clock in' and one booth, and 'clock out' at another, they calculate how long it took you to pass, figure out your average speed, and mail you a ticket if that speed is too high. It is worth the 10% extra and the brief stop to use cash if you speed.)
My spin on the borrowed car issue would be to make sure I return the car with more gasoline than I started. That way, even if I used a toll tag once or twice, the owner still comes out ahead or even.